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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

Oops, I was
so excited I forgot to check and see if the photo was
copyrighted. I'll edit the post and remove the picture. Here's
the FCC ID: IMRWLPCE24H and the link (from BW, muchas
garcias):

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=37613&native_or_pdf=pdf

FYI,
the acrobat document maintains the original resolution of the
photo inserted into the document. You can zoom in pretty far,
e.g. 600% before it starts to pixelate, which is enough to
make useful measurements for comparison.

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06-10-2002 11:01
AM

blackwave
Do I look like I'm
joking

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1806

quote:

Originally posted by sparafina
Here's the FCC
ID: IMRWLPCE24H and the link (from BW, muchas
garcias):

Though I do not recall, I am sure I got
this info from lincomatic and his hard k0re nude
'tronics links.. Thanks lincomatic!

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-=BW=-

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06-10-2002 11:06
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

bmoore314 has posted some interesting photos and
info
on "cantennas" in the thread:

my wireless
setup
http://forums.netstumbler.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2207

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06-12-2002 12:12
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

g.net omni vs
maxrad

I compared
the measurements of the g.net low powered omni to that to the
maxrad picture and they match up pretty well, about 1 mm off
due to pixelation. The construction is the same, even the
coils match. The only thing I could'nt measure was the
decoupler length. From my understanding of this design, you
can tune a collinear based on the length of the
decoupler.

That being said, I still don't understand
the principles behind this antenna especially after looking at
the collinear designs that use coax, where the last section is
a 1/4 wave length.

It's hard to judge its performance,
because I'm using it in an unfamiliar area. I've been using my
antenna at freeway speeds (75+), and the window mount has held
up. However, I thought of a new magnetic mount design for
these larger antennas. Will post a pic when I build
it.

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06-12-2002 11:31
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

Re: g.net omni vs
maxrad

quote:

Originally posted by sparafina
I compared the
measurements of the g.net low powered omni to that to the
maxrad picture and they match up pretty well, about 1 mm off
due to pixelation. The construction is the same, even the
coils match. The only thing I could'nt measure was the
decoupler length. From my understanding of this design, you
can tune a collinear based on the length of the
decoupler.

That being said, I still don't understand
the principles behind this antenna especially after looking
at the collinear designs that use coax, where the last
section is a 1/4 wave length.

It's hard to judge its
performance, because I'm using it in an unfamiliar area.
I've been using my antenna at freeway speeds (75+), and the
window mount has held up. However, I thought of a new
magnetic mount design for these larger antennas. Will post a
pic when I build it.

Ha! pilfered design as we suspected,
despite their claim:

This is a follow up design that
culminated everything we learned from building the first
collinear antenna

thanks for taking the time to
spec out the maxrad.

the calculations regarding phasing
coil design are really puzzling me in both this design and the
mobile mark. isn't the idea of phasing coils just to eat up
enough wire length to get the straight parts in phase? there
must be some other effects that i'm not accounting for because
the numbers don't make sense to me.

btw, here is
another collinear that some of the satellite hams are using,
built up of 5/8 and 3/4 wavelength elements:

http://www.qsl.net/vk3jed/2400_MHz_antenna1.JPG
http://www.qsl.net/vk3jed/2400_MHz_antenna2.JPG

it
uses u-shaped sections instead of coils for
phasing.

looking fwd to seeing your new magmount
design...

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06-13-2002 01:56
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

I doubt if
I'll build the Pringles yagi/waveguide/whatetever, but I
thought this would make a classier alternative to the
ubiquitous Pringles can. Definitely much more
enjoyable.
sparafina has attached
this image:

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06-16-2002 08:15
PM

eric650
Net Stumbler

Registered: Jun
2002
Location:
Posts: 77

@lincomatic

Hey
lincomatic, can you tell me exactly what your N jack is? Like
the exact part number and from where you got it. I want to
build an antenna just like yours. Thanks.

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06-19-2002 01:47
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

Re:
@lincomatic

quote:

Originally posted by eric650
Hey lincomatic,
can you tell me exactly what your N jack is? Like the exact
part number and from where you got it. I want to build an
antenna just like yours. Thanks.

i got mine at a local radio supply house.
it was in an unmarked bag so i don't have a part number but
you can get it here:

http://www.pl-259.com/page1.html

it's
the N female chassis mount, 4-hole $2.00

btw
which antenna are you going to build?

lincomatic has attached this image:

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06-19-2002 01:55
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eric650
Net Stumbler

Registered: Jun
2002
Location:
Posts: 77

the one that
you started this thread with :P

Thanks.

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06-19-2002 02:33
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eric650
Net Stumbler

Registered: Jun
2002
Location:
Posts: 77

oh yes, that
n jack will hook up directly to the orinoco card with the
other pigtail cable I need to buy right?

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06-19-2002 02:35
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

Score!

Whilst
looking for a laptop to build a linux wireless access point at
Goodwill, I found an old ISA Rangelan2 card with an antenna
for $10. The antenna turned out to be the 2 dbi model, way
cool.

Yes, I started taking it apart, but its pretty
well constructed and I would trash the nice plastic case to
see what's inside. Based on sqeezing and bending the antenna
(no comments please), I think that its a 1/4 wave whip with
some kind of coil. The base has a big plate that probably acts
a ground plane. Any way, I'm retiring the yogurt cup toothpick
in favor of this thing. A couple of quick mods - adding a
magnet to the base and soldering an N connector - and I should
be stumbling in style.
sparafina has attached
this image:

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06-19-2002 02:37
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

quote:

Originally posted by eric650
oh yes, that n
jack will hook up directly to the orinoco card with the
other pigtail cable I need to buy right?

yes. make sure the pigtail u get has an
N-Male, not Female.

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06-19-2002 02:38
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lullabud
UberStumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: CO/CA
Posts: 255

Re: Score!

quote:

Originally posted by sparafina
Whilst looking
for a laptop to build a linux wireless access point at
Goodwill, I found an old ISA Rangelan2 card with an antenna
for $10. The antenna turned out to be the 2 dbi model, way
cool.

Yes, I started taking it apart, but its pretty
well constructed and I would trash the nice plastic case to
see what's inside. Based on sqeezing and bending the antenna
(no comments please), I think that its a 1/4 wave whip with
some kind of coil. The base has a big plate that probably
acts a ground plane. Any way, I'm retiring the yogurt cup
toothpick in favor of this thing. A couple of quick mods -
adding a magnet to the base and soldering an N connector -
and I should be stumbling in style.

dude! how lucky can you get??

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06-19-2002 03:24
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

Re: Re:
Score!

quote:

Originally posted by lullabud
dude! how lucky
can you get??

Well, I did find a working notebook
(Epson ActionNote 650c) for another $10. I'm going to use this
as an access point for testing all those antennas I built.
Something Eventually, I'm gonna stick it in the attic for a
WIPOP, so my kids and their friends will have a never ending
LAN party.

Oh yeah, and I have phenomenal parking
karma this year.

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06-19-2002 04:24
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lullabud
UberStumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: CO/CA
Posts: 255

you should
take your fantastic luck and buy stock or something. just let
me know who you're investing in so i can mirror your
purchasing. =)

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06-19-2002 04:30
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

quote:

Originally posted by lullabud
you should take
your fantastic luck and buy stock or something. just let me
know who you're investing in so i can mirror your
purchasing. =)

I think that the good parking karma is
the consolation prize for market losses.

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06-19-2002 04:46
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

sparafina posted his measurements from
outcast_one's photos of the mobile mark in another
thread. i've copied his msg below in case anyone is
interested:
--------------------------------------------
quote
sparafina:

Here are my
measurements:

Groundplane to beginning of coil: 34 mm
(roughly 1/4 wave?)
Coil: 14 mm, 3 turns with 4mm between
each full turn
Coil width: 7 mm
Coil to end: 62 mm (~1/2
wave)
Groundplane is about 80mm in diameter

I'm not
sure if a decoupler is needed (don't see one), but its pretty
important for collinears from the ham stuff I've been reading.

So far, I've got the wire bent, I think I have an old
harddisk drive platten for a ground plane. I bought a new
microwave and I salvaged the magnets from magnetron for a mag
mount. I'll post pics when I'm done.

end
quote
--------------------------------------------------

i
built one myself but it sucked pretty bad...the gain was WORSE
than the built in orinoco antenna.

my own
measurements:
ground plane to coils: 34mm (9.5mm of that is
under the black plastic bump..wonder what's in
there?)
wire: ~1.5mm OD
length of coils: 13mm
coil
ID: 5mm
coil OD: 7mm
coil spacing: ~3-3.5mm
coils to
top: 51.5mm+13mm(plastic tip)..wonder how high the wire goes
into the tip.

i used solid copper wire cut out of a
piec of romex...forget the gauge..it was all i had available;
tried initially to bend a coat hanger but the steel wire was
too difficult to bend into the coils.

i think the
problem w/ the bad performance i got is that there is too much
uncertainty in measuring from the photos...even 1-2mm off in
the dimensions @ 2.4GHz can mess it up pretty
badly.

btw, mobile mark's spec for the antenna show a
3" diameter ground plane which is a little smaller than 80mm,
but i don't think it's that critical.

__________________
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lincomatic on 07-05-2002 at 01:20 AM

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07-05-2002 01:02
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

if at first you don't succeed, try try
again

ok sparafina,
ya got my interest piqued again. what kind of dork is building
an antenna @ 2:30AM on July 4? me. but hey, it's July 5 now
anyway.

this time i was able to bend the wire more
accurately, and it works a lot better. but i must say its
performance is rather underwhelming. went outside and compared
the gain against my toothpick, and performance was about the
same. about the only diff is it seems to be less sensitive to
polarization effects. i guess the real acid test will be
stumbling with it. but since it's made of copper wire it's
going to be difficult to keep its shape under all the abuse i
give my antennae.

below is a pic of the two antennae
side by side. once again i used a 3" can lid for the ground
plane.
lincomatic has attached this image:

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07-05-2002 02:37
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

Re: if at first you
don't succeed, try try again

quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic
ok sparafina,
ya got my interest piqued again. what kind of dork is
building an antenna @ 2:30AM on July 4?

Well me as well, because I'm avoiding
writing a report due tomorrow. But WTF I'll crank out the
report , take a nap and catch MIB2 with the kids in the
afternoon.

I used a leftover brass rod from the
g.net/maxrad antenna build. It's stiffer than 12 guage from
romex, but I don't think it will stand up to much abuse. I
bent the coil on a 3/16 drill bit to get the measured OD of
the coil, then I squashed the turns to the measure
distance.

I'm really interested in getting this to work
because the the odessaoffice folks are reporting lan
connections in police cars from 15 miles away (using a 500 mw
amp) using the mobile mark. While that may not be good for
stumbling, I'm intrigued at the design of anything that's so
efficient.

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07-05-2002 03:08
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

nice to know
i'm not the geekiest one on this board
i'm avoiding my work too...should be writing code
instead.

i bent the coils on a craftsman
screwdriver...just happened to have one w/ 3.5mm
diameter.

well, i just went out stumbling w/ my mobile
mark clone...retraced the route i did earlier tonite w/ my
toothpick and the antenna mounted in exactly the same position
on my car...sitting on top of my cracked open sunroof. the
signal was better by up to 4dB on some AP's, and identical on
others; never worse than the toothpick. my guess is that it's
what i noticed earlier...the mobile mark isn't as sensitive to
orientation (polarization) as my toothpick. of course,
atmospheric conditions change a lot after a few hours, so that
might be part of it, but i did feel that some of the AP's were
detected a little farther away than before. i guess for the
time being, this one will become my main stumbling antenna
(until i mangle it)

i'm really interested in finding out how it
fares against your maxrad clone, proxim, etc. i find that
15mile claim by the odessaoffice guys a bit hard to swallow
unless the AP's are transmitting way above the legal
limit.

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07-05-2002 03:24
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fordem
Tropical
Stumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location:
Posts: 160

Here's mine -
I had a little trouble with the image size - so please excuse
the poor picture.

The ground plane is a 3½" diameter
tin lid, the coil is 3½ turns around a coarse self tapping
screw - about ¼" diameter (the screw, not the coil) with the
turns separated to give a length of ½".

The free ends
of the wire were trimmed to mount the coil at the right height
over the ground plane, and set total length again from the
ground plane using the pictures in this thread.

The
mount bracket is made from a PC expansion slot
cover.

Compared to the integrated antenna, this has
allowed me to detect an AP, whilst parked in my driveway, that
I didn't know existed - a school 3 houses away - and there's
one in town I can detect from a much further distance - I'd
estimate about half mile.
fordem has attached this
image:

Last edited by
fordem on 07-05-2002 at 04:59 AM

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07-05-2002 04:31
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

fordem,
nice job. but how do you get the
cable into the car? do you just slam the door on it? i'm
trying to figure out how to feed the cable inside w/o
squashing it. keeping the sunroof or window cracked open is
unbearably noisy on the freeway.

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07-06-2002 03:53
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

went to OSH
hardware this morning. the place is a goldmine for interesting
antenna building supplies. all kinds of tiny
brass,steel,aluminum tubing and rods, even box and u-channel
stuff as well as allthread and sheet metal (the sheet metal
was a bit too pricey for me). and they have lots of very small
nuts & bolts made out of galvanized steel, brass, or
nylon.

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07-06-2002 03:56
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

Mag mount for g.net 8
dbi omni

I finally got
around to building a mag mount for the omni I posted earlier
in this thread. Here it is in all its PVC glory.

I
used a plastic sink down pipe to hold the 1" pcv antenna
radome snugly. I need to drill a hole for a set screw to make
it real secure.
sparafina has attached
this image:

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07-06-2002 07:19
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

Mag mount

here's the
top of the mag mount. I fitted a piece of 1/4 inch aluminum
into the pipe cap.
sparafina has attached
this image:

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07-06-2002 07:23
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fordem
Tropical
Stumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location:
Posts: 160

quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic

fordem,
nice job. but how do you get
the cable into the car? do you just slam the door on it? i'm
trying to figure out how to feed the cable inside w/o
squashing it. keeping the sunroof or window cracked open is
unbearably noisy on the freeway.

I'm using the 60" pigtail from Fabcorp,
it goes straight from the card to the N connector under the
antenna. The cable used is LMR100A which is perhaps 1/8"
diameter. The door seals on my car are a little unusual in
that they are flat & almost parallel to the door surface
so they do not crimp the cable if I just close the door on
it.

I haven't noticed any wind noise issues - but hey -
this is on a Suzuki Swift, which isn't the quietest of cars.
There is a small amount of seepage in heavy rain - barely
noticeable, not enough to get excited about.

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07-06-2002 07:25
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

mag mount
continued

here's the
bottom of the mount. I used three large pot magnets from home
despot. The mount is a piece of sheet metal I found while
dumpster diving.
sparafina has attached
this image:

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07-06-2002 07:25
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

mag mount
continued

Here's a side
view. I only include this because when I initially built it,
the magnets were bolted directly to the bottom plate. On a
curved surface such as the roof of a car, the magnets weren't
making full contact. I used rubber hose washers as 'isolation'
mounts and used two nuts and a compression washer to secure
the magnets to the base plate. The magnets have limited travel
but they make full contact. Another hint is to place the two
magnet side facing the direction of trave.

I'm happy to
say that despite the tall profile of the antenna, I was able
to drive at freeway speeds and then some (hint I have v rated
tires) for an extended period of time in order to simulate
severe wind stress.

Antenna performance has markedly
improved from the window mount, probably because the roof the
car acts a groundplane. It displays a lot less polarization
mounted on the roof.
sparafina has attached
this image:

Last edited by
sparafina on 07-06-2002 at 07:56 PM

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07-06-2002 07:34
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

5dbi omni

Here's my
version of the 5dbi "netstumbler special."

The yogurt
cup lives! Painted to a non-threatening white, it forms the
base of the mag mount. Magnets are from an old microwave
magnetron.

The ground plane is an old 3.5" hard disk
platter that contains part of my dissertation. If you have a
squid, you would find a lot of notes on artificial life circa
1994 and my version of Conway's game of life.

The cool
part is the brass tubing soldered into the N connector. The
11/32 brass wire fits snugly into the tube, allowing me to
insert antennas of various
measurements.
sparafina has attached
this image:

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07-06-2002 07:53
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

sparafina,

u take the prize for finesse.
that magmount is great. i hardly ever get past prototype stage
(which is hurredly rushing thru assembly after midnite so i
don't feel too guilty about taking a break from my
programming) but that HDD platter ground plane is really
slick; i'm gonna go dig out my old clunkers tonite. and the
slip-in whip idea w/ the brass tube is just what i've been
looking for when testing; sure beats soldering/unsoldering
everything.

keep up the kool ideas.

i'm going to
try k3tz's patch next:
http://www.qsl.net/k3tz/k3tz.html

__________________
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07-06-2002 08:21
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic
keep up the kool
ideas. [/B]

Thanks, the mag mount was something I
whipped up after fixing a gourmet meal for the family (yeah
right).

I got a little paranoid about the antenna
sliding/popping out of the brass tube, which is probably
unlikely given the length of the tube, but I figure a piece of
heat shrink tubing should secure it while
experimenting.

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07-06-2002 08:37
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

sparafina,
maybe you can just crimp the tube in a
few places to tighten it up, although it won't look as
clean...

also, where does the cabling go in your
magmount? you slide the antenna into the tube, but i don't see
where the N jack comes out.

btw, finally received my
ARRL antenna book a couple of days ago.
i was disappointed
at the lack of theory & derivations. there is plenty of
basic antenna theory, but when it comes to the antenna designs
(which is the bulk of it) it's more of a cookbook, and most of
the stuff is for much longer wavelengths than what we're
dealing with. wish i could find something w/ more formulas
& insight into the derivations of the designs in it. the
software on the CD is not that interesting, either. some of it
doesn't even work at microwave freq's.

__________________
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07-06-2002 08:44
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 147

quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic
also, where
does the cabling go in your magmount? you slide the antenna
into the tube, but i don't see where the N jack comes
out.

The whole antenna goes inside the other
pvc sink down pipe, and I slide cable through the hole in the
side.

sparafina has attached this image:

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07-07-2002 12:22
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

trevor
marshalls' biquad (http://www.trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm)
seems like a pretty nice design w/ ~11dBi gain. I followed the
instructions for building the standalone model - 123x123mm
reflector w/ 30mm high lips. the element is 15mm above the
reflector, which is made of some scrap steel from a
can.

for some reason, the performance i'm getting is
horrible. i went about 1 block away from my AP and it was no
better than the built-in orinoco antenna. my comtelco patch
clone was the best, with a few dB gain above my mobile mark
clone. what's strange is when i point it directly at my AP the
gain goes way down and the best signal is obtained when it's
pointed about 60deg to the side.

has anyone played much
with this design and gotten good
results?

sparafina, have you played much with
yours? do you get max gain when pointing directly at the AP?
rotation doesn't seem to make much difference on
mine.
lincomatic has attached this image:

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07-08-2002 01:38
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

success!

ok, where
best to get the answer than from the horse's mouth. i fired
off an e-mail to trevor, and he gave me the answer quickly. my
driven element & feed were all wrong. in the pic above, i
have the thing shorted together at the middle and only 1 wire
connecting. it's supposed to be open at the middle w/ 1 side
connected to the signal and one to ground. works great
now...about 3dB better than my comtelco patch clone when both
are rotated for best match of polarization.

i also dug
up this link:
http://patraswireless.00sf.com/antennas.html
check
out the guy's 13dBi double eight
lincomatic has attached
this image:

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07-08-2002 03:46
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fordem
Tropical
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location:
Posts: 160

Re: success!

quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic
ok, where best
to get the answer than from the horse's mouth. i fired off
an e-mail to trevor, and he gave me the answer quickly. my
driven element & feed were all wrong. in the pic above,
i have the thing shorted together at the middle and only 1
wire connecting. it's supposed to be open at the middle w/ 1
side connected to the signal and one to ground. works great
now...about 3dB better than my comtelco patch clone when
both are rotated for best match of polarization.

i
also dug up this link:
http://patraswireless.00sf.com/antennas.html
check
out the guy's 13dBi double eight

I was just about to point that out. I
haven't completed my bi-quad - although I have the driven
element folded and all the other bits. I was working from this design which shows the feed details
quite clearly. I was waiting for a promised "quad-bi-quad"
design to be posted, which I envisioned as 4 bi-quads stacked
with some sort of phasing harness, but it hasn't been posted
yet.

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07-08-2002 06:05
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

the frars guy
uses 34mm sides and 17mm space between the driven element
& reflector while trevor uses 30.5mm and 15mm,
respectively. trevor has a NEC2 model for his. when i get a
chance maybe i'll try plugging in the frars design and see
what the diff is.

i wonder if it's ok the way i did the
feed connections instead of using rigid coax. performance
seems ok but i don't know what my setup does to
VSWR...

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07-08-2002 07:27
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

fordem
did some calcs...from trevor's
examples of the 2.4GHz and 1.9GHz biquads, seems like the arms
are supposed to be 1/4 wave.
so the frars biquad comes up
w/ 2.2GHz. seems a bit too low since channel 6, which is the
middle channel in the US is 2.437GHz.

also, the
patraswireless guy's double eight is probably the "quad
biquad" you're referring to. when i searched google that's
what some people were calling it.

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Last edited by
lincomatic on 07-08-2002 at 11:27 PM

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07-08-2002 10:30
PM

lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 739

just in case
this thread ever mysteriously disappears, i've archived it
at:

http://www.geocities.com/lincomatic/hbthread.html

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07-09-2002 02:44
AM

eric650
Net Stumbler

Registered: Jun
2002
Location:
Posts: 77

thanks

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07-09-2002 03:06
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