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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 687

Post Your Homebrew Antennas Here

ok, since
measurements of the mobile mark antenna don't seem too be
forthcoming, i decided to take the bull by the horns and
design an omni from scratch. come on everyone, if you have a
homebrew antenna post it here. let's use this thread for
antenna brainstorming.

first, let me make it clear that
i really don't know a damn about RF design. spent several
hours at the library, borders books, and perusing the web.
then i downloaded the EZNEC demo from
http://www.eznec.com/
and started messing
with it.

i still don't have a good grasp of how to
model a real ground plane, but i was able to get some plots
and start tweaking things. i started w/ a quarter wave whip.
In the US, channel 6 is the middle channel at 2.437GHz. this
makes a quarter wave about 30.6mm.
so i started with this
and just experimented w/ various lengths to change the pattern
and SWR and ended up with 89mm. EZNEC shows SWR of 1.2-1.6
over the WiFi band and gain of 4.35dB max assuming a perfect
ground (which we don't have).

so here is my prototype.
it's just a piece of 2mm dia. coat hanger cut to 87mm and
soldered into an N-female panel jack for 89mm length from the
tip to the base of the middle pin on the jack. just for the
hell of it i soldered on the ground plane, which is the lid of
a 3.25" dia. tin can. the tape is just to keep me from
shredding my fingers on the sharp edges.

how well does
it work? i was amazed. walking outside with ministumbler, i
can find my AP 120ft farther away than with the ORiNOCO built
in antenna. inside the house, i went the the place w/ the
worst reception and the signal & SNR went up by over 10dB
vs the built in antenna. i haven't even begun to tweak the
thing yet. not bad for a $4 antenna (the cost of the N
jack).
lincomatic has attached this image:

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05-29-2002 12:40
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
joking

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

Ah, but can
you wear it like this? (See attached)
blackwave has attached
this image:

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05-29-2002 01:14
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 687

i guess could
also feed the tip thru the top of a baseball hat for war
walking and look like a total dork, too

just stumbled w/ it for the first time on
the way to work and it picked up a few AP's i didn't know
existed

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05-29-2002 01:45
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acidrayne
OmniStumbler

Registered: May
2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 405

quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic
i guess could
also feed the tip thru the top of a baseball hat for war
walking and look like a total dork, too

just stumbled w/ it for the first time on
the way to work and it picked up a few AP's i didn't know
existed

I think attaching a propellar to it and
wearing it as a beanie cap would be nice!!

Didnt
someone have a pic similar to this posted at one point?

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05-29-2002 01:48
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by acidrayne

I think
attaching a propellar to it and wearing it as a beanie cap
would be nice!!

Didnt someone have a pic similar to
this posted at one point?

Click here

http://forums.netstumbler.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1772&perpage=15&highlight=warwalking&pagenumber=2

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05-29-2002 02:00
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 133

I built a
similar antenna, but I mounted it on the bottom of a yogurt
cup, cut a slit for the pigtail, glued a speaker magnet to the
inside of the lid and snapped it back on, voila - instant
magnetic mount.

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05-29-2002 02:06
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 687

sparafina:
post a photo! and tell us what length you chose and
why.

acid: haha, that beanie idea isn't a bad idea for
hiding the antenna but the dorkiness of it would attract too
much attention

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05-29-2002 02:35
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acidrayne
OmniStumbler

Registered: May
2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 405

quote:

Originally posted by blackwave

Click
here

http://forums.netstumbler.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1772&perpage=15&highlight=warwalking&pagenumber=2

Thanks for the link BW ... That is the
one I was thinking of.

Linco ... You know the chicks
would dig it.

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05-29-2002 02:38
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by acidrayne

Linco ...
You know the chicks would dig it.

Oh I can see all those oiled up bikini
silicon filled stumbler groupies lining up now... oh
yea...

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05-29-2002 02:45
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outcast_one
cut/hack/modify

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: MA USA
Posts: 25

mobile mark
pics

I was hoping
otaku42 would post the pics fairly quickly, but there seems to
be some delay. I will post two of them here, the rest will
appear on his site when he has it finished. These pics are low
res due to the file size limit of the forum.
outcast_one has attached this image:

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05-29-2002 07:00
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outcast_one
cut/hack/modify

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: MA USA
Posts: 25

second pic

here it
is
outcast_one has attached this image:

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05-29-2002 07:01
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gcrocker
Net Stumbler

Registered: May
2002
Location:
Posts: 32

Not that
appropriate for stumbling (it's 20" high and PVC), but I may
mount it on my crappy van for just that purpose:

http://www.guerrilla.net/reference/antennas/2ghz_collinear_omni_lowpwr/

First
one I built took 3-4 hours, and I think I can do them in an
hour now.

-glenn

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05-29-2002 07:17
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 133

quote:

Originally posted by lincomatic
sparafina:
post a photo! and tell us what length you chose and why.

I came up with 73 mm based on a 5/8 wave
whip. Uusing the antenna elmer at http://www.qsl.net/w4sat/five8th.htm, I got
178.308/2437. No groundplane, I figure the car would be
sufficient

Sorry no pics on the 5/8 whip, left the
camera at the in-laws. I'll post it later when I retrieve it
from them over the weekend. A pic of the cantenna and rig are
here:

http://forums.netstumbler.com//showthread.php?s=&threadid=1823&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Used
a Bush's bean can; although I found chili and spaghetti-os
cans that were tall enough, they looked too disgusting to deal
with. Used the beans in a lamb cassole, yum. Perhaps that
should be a thread: Cantenna Recipes

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05-29-2002 08:31
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lullabud
UberStumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: CO/CA
Posts: 255

quote:

Originally posted by gcrocker
Not that
appropriate for stumbling (it's 20" high and PVC), but I may
mount it on my crappy van for just that purpose:

http://www.guerrilla.net/reference/antennas/2ghz_collinear_omni_lowpwr/

First
one I built took 3-4 hours, and I think I can do them in an
hour now.

-glenn

dude, post photos and design
notes!

also, for those who want yet another tutorial on
the pringles can my friend dr. nazo built a nice one and took
photos of the process.

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05-30-2002 07:06
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sykojester
Net Lurker -
phjear

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 135

just looked @
the pics (too busy to read everything else right now), but I
know I wouldnt dare go out w/ it the way it looked. I thought
it was nice and all, but man, that looked like a pipe bomb.
LOL. esp all black.

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05-30-2002 07:12
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by sykojester
just looked @
the pics (too busy to read everything else right now), but I
know I wouldnt dare go out w/ it the way it looked. I
thought it was nice and all, but man, that looked like a
pipe bomb. LOL. esp all black.

oh hell, yeah it does...

Hey has
anyone tried using paintball canisters (like the 150 ball
version).. at least you can get those in clear.

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05-30-2002 07:21
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lullabud
UberStumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: CO/CA
Posts: 255

yeah, it
works really well though. the velcro is nice for wrapping up
the cable and holding it in place when you're not using it. i
think it looks nice enough that it doesn't scare people
though. he uses it all the time in coffee shops and stuff
without an overly due amount of funny looks.

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05-30-2002 07:23
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by blackwave

oh
hell, yeah it does...

Hey has anyone tried using
paintball canisters (like the 150 ball version).. at least
you can get those in clear.

In case you don't know what I am
referencing... here is a pic:... and don't mention what else
it looks like..

blackwave has attached this image:

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05-30-2002 07:27
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lullabud
UberStumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: CO/CA
Posts: 255

get that smut
out of here BW!!

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05-30-2002 07:29
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
joking

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by lullabud
without an
overly due amount of funny looks.

Lucky guy, I get enough weird looks as it
is. .. AND I even wear tshirts that say "STOP STARING AT
ME"...

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05-30-2002 07:29
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sparafina
yatta!

Registered: May
2002
Location: AUS/LAX/DCA
Posts: 133

quote:

Originally posted by blackwave
don't mention
what else it looks like..

I don't get it. How's the gerbil suppose
to get out?

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05-30-2002 07:34
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by lullabud
get that smut
out of here BW!!

Ok for those who think lullabud is being
serious!

Here is the link I snatched the photo from...

Dye 140 Round Tube, Clear
http://www.countypaintball.com/product_description.asp?item=1497

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05-30-2002 07:34
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
joking

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by blackwave

Ok for
those who think lullabud is being serious!

Here is the link I snatched the photo
from...

Dye 140 Round Tube, Clear
http://www.countypaintball.com/product_description.asp?item=1497

*NOTE: I am not endorsing this site at
all, I just found it via google, but it fit the description I
was trying to show...

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05-30-2002 07:35
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drnazo
Mini
Stumbler

Registered: May
2002
Location: CO / Springs
Posts: 22

I'm the
kreat0r of the modified pringles can antenna @ http://me.jeremiahwhite.com/pringles.html

It really does work well, better and more reliable then
other designs I've tried. The velcro has come in sooo handy on
the can. Not only for neat cords like lull mentioned but I
plan on window mounting this and stuff. In fact, right now
posting this, I have the antenna setup at an AP across the
street. Fun stuff. I think that the pipe bomb look to it keeps
the on-lookers at bay.

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05-30-2002 10:01
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lullabud
UberStumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: CO/CA
Posts: 255

quote:

Originally posted by sparafina

I don't
get it. How's the gerbil suppose to get out?

i don't see the place for the pump to
hook up... but it looks like it'd end up being longer and
thicker! ;-)

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05-30-2002 10:14
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by lullabud

i don't
see the place for the pump to hook up... but it looks like
it'd end up being longer and thicker! ;-)

Damn you guys, now I have
Barq's all over my keyboards... ARGH!

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05-30-2002 10:19
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drnazo
Mini
Stumbler

Registered: May
2002
Location: CO / Springs
Posts: 22

quote:

Originally posted by lullabud

i don't
see the place for the pump to hook up... but it looks like
it'd end up being longer and thicker! ;-)

Don't they have one of these at Wal
Greens

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05-30-2002 10:22
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by drnazo

Don't they
have one of these at Wal Greens

What are you defining as "one of
these"... If you mean paintball tube, paintball canister, then
yes I have seen some of these.. but not this brand.. Better
brands such as these can be found exclusively at PB stores..
otherwise you end up with a generic 75 ball tube that doesn't
close all the time.. or whatever..

though if you mean
"one of these" as in something else, they probably do too.. I
saw an elderly couple checking one out and reading the box...
I almost had a heart attack myself..

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05-30-2002 10:33
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ZipperSeven
Write that
down.

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 127

Those of you
who have been with the forum since the beggining know that I
have always been the advocate of cheap, homebrew antennas,
especially since antennas like the lucent range extender are
pricey and yield about the same gain as the infamous pringles
cantenna.
So far, I have built a waveguide antenna (the
pirocantenna) and helped to build the original version of the
pringles cantenna, which syko jester later improved upon. Both
were immensely simple to build, the pirocantenna required only
measuring and drilling a hole to accomodate the N-connector. I
won't repost the pics here because one is already posted in
the paint cantenna thread.
My next project is to build a
patch antenna, based on the patch design which floated around
here recently (perhaps sage of sages blackwave will know
exactly which link I mean) which was built in a tupperware
sandwich container. Once I build this, I will post data
comparing that to the pringles and pirocantennas.

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05-30-2002 10:38
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
joking

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by ZipperSeven
My next
project is to build a patch antenna, based on the patch
design which floated around here recently (perhaps sage of
sages blackwave will know exactly which link I mean) which
was built in a tupperware sandwich container. Once I build
this, I will post data comparing that to the pringles and
pirocantennas.

Roger Roger...

Here resides the info you seek and
reference...

lincomatic's Compact Stumbling
Rig
http://www.geocities.com/lincomatic/rig.html

from:
Come
on People Post Your Setups
http://forums.netstumbler.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1350&pagenumber=1

See
attached...

blackwave has attached this image:

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05-30-2002 10:46
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ZipperSeven
Write that
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 127

Wow, such
fast work, bw! Yeah, that's exactly the one I mean. I knew one
of our own built it but I couldn't remember who. BTW,
lincomatic, good job and kool design!

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05-30-2002 10:48
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

quote:

Originally posted by ZipperSeven
Wow, such
fast work, bw!

NP, I think I have that one memorized...

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05-30-2002 10:50
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 687

quote:

Originally posted by ZipperSeven
Wow, such
fast work, bw! Yeah, that's exactly the one I mean. I knew
one of our own built it but I couldn't remember who. BTW,
lincomatic, good job and kool design!

thanks. i'm going to redo the insides of
the antenna when i have more time...i think the spacing
between the patch and the ground plane is critical for max
performance even though the original design didn't seem to
take this into consideration.

i've searched hi &
low all over the net for patch design info but to no avail. i
would really like to know how to build a big one w/ higher
gain like those big panel antennas (see the warcouching
thread). this guy has one you can DIY too:
http://www.qsl.net/k3tz/

i haven't
tried it yet, though.

outcast_one thanks for
posting the mobile mark photos!

my initial results
were not very good. first, i tried a coat hanger, but i
couldn't bend it well enough to get a smooth coil. next, i
tried #8 copper wire i got out of a piece of Romex; it was
still pretty difficult to bend accurately, but wrapping it
around a screwdriver got some rounder coils. initial testing
w/ against my coat hanger whip were disappointing. it works
slightly better than the orinoco built in, but not much. i
think the problem is that the dimensions are critical, and i
had to do too much guessing w/ the photos we have so
far.

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05-31-2002 07:30
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lincomatic
UberNetbumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tanimbar Islands
Posts: 687

quote:

Originally posted by ZipperSeven
So far, I
have built a waveguide antenna (the pirocantenna) and helped
to build the original version of the pringles cantenna,
which syko jester later improved upon. Both were immensely
simple to build, the pirocantenna required only measuring
and drilling a hole to accomodate the N-connector. I won't
repost the pics here because one is already posted in the
paint cantenna thread.

zipper,
how did you guys improve the
pringles? can u summarize the diff's in performance between
the can and the pringles? i've built a cantenna but not the
pringles yet because it seems a lot of people thing the can is
better (and it's certainly a lot less trouble to build). any
thoughts about using a different container? i'm told that the
pringles can is too small in diameter, and also i don't like
the cardboard...not too durable.

http://www.radio-active.net.au/web/80211/pringles.html

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05-31-2002 07:35
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ZipperSeven
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 127

Well, it's
not that we changed the design or anything like that. Mostly,
it was small fixes that probably yielded small gains, but made
us feel better about the design more than anything. Our
original design was built just as a proof of concept, so was
built kind of haphazardly, taking little regard for accurate
spacing. We used McDonalds straws as the spacers, since we
couldn't find pipe in the right ID. We later recut and
replaced those with commercially available plastic tubing that
is thicker, and was also cut more precisely. The washers are
acutally glued into place with hot glue, that way they do not
have a chance to move on the allthread. At one time, we'd
thought about actually spacing these using nuts on the
allthread, but we thought that would be to time
consuming.

As to the use of the can: to me, while the
right length, the can is not the ideal material, nor does it
really have the right diameter. The big thing they have going
is they are easily purchased, and when opened, found to
contain flavored potato chips which can be consumed during the
construction of the antenna.

In comparison, we saw
little difference between the pirocantenna and the pringles
can at a fixed distance test, but we were mainly looking for a
better signal to noise ratio. As of yet, I haven't conducted
any distance or signal strength tests against known AP's, but
there are a good set near syko's we might try when I build the
patch to compare the three.
ZipperSeven has attached
this image:

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05-31-2002 09:56
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

back to Paintball
tubes...

ok, looks
like I will have to try this myself, since everyone got
weirded out by how the clear one looked...

A
paintball tube is wider than a pringles can, and around
the same length and a lot more durable since it is plastic.
Even cooler you can get one in clear plastic.

Hell you
can strap this baby on your shoulder and stumblewalk...
serious We-Are-The-Borg material..

See
attached...

PS yet another pringles
link:
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448
blackwave has attached
this image:

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05-31-2002 10:13
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g0tr00t
Nosferatu

Registered: May
2002
Location: under a rock
Posts: 144

Re: back to Paintball
tubes...

quote:

Originally posted by blackwave
ok, looks like
I will have to try this myself, since everyone got weirded
out by how the clear one looked...

That tube is actually pretty
cool...No I haven't made it, just modified the picture from
BW.

g0tr00t has attached this image:

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05-31-2002 10:43
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blackwave
Do I look like I'm
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: SoCal, OC
Posts: 1798

Thanks
g0tr00t!

That is way
out... thanks to lullabud which has given it a
name...
http://forums.netstumbler.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1755&pagenumber=2

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05-31-2002 11:21
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ZipperSeven
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Registered: Apr
2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 127

Blackwave: I
actually think that the link you have was the link that
inspired us to build the pringles can. As to
the...hmmmm....'dildo-tenna', seems like it could work, but
it's not a waveguide with no outer metal shell, and so
diameter doesn't matter (as long as the element is centered
correctly). The key pieces in the pringles cantenna are the
internal structure, as g0tr00t's pimp tight picture
shows.

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05-31-2002 12:12
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lullabud
UberStumbler

Registered: Apr
2002
Location: CO/CA
Posts: 255

ironically
though, the pringles can isn't metal and hence doesn't
work the way you'd expect that design to work. the cantenna
page has more details on it. i think that's why the pringles
works well directionally as better than the internal card
antennas omni... did that make sense?

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05-31-2002 12:37
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